Finding God Without Religion

For many of us, religion was something we were given long before we had the ability to question it.

In this episode, we explore the space between religion and spirituality, the place where what we were taught begins to meet what we actually feel and experience as truth.

We talk about the role religion can play in providing structure, community, and meaning, while also exploring how certain beliefs may create fear, guilt, or disconnection from self. We also open up a conversation around the Bible, interpretation, and the difference between what is taught and what is personally felt.

This is not about rejecting religion or choosing one path over another. It is about creating space to reflect, to question, and to reconnect with your own inner knowing.

You are allowed to explore. You are allowed to evolve. You are allowed to define your own relationship with what you believe.

💫 Email us at theunhingedintuitives@gmail.com for questions, comments, or topic requests, we would love to hear from you!

🌿 Work with Jane-Marie: www.transformativehealings.com

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I'm Carrie. And I'm Jane. Together we are your intuitive weirdos. Welcome to Unhinged, the Intuitive Weirdos, the podcast for people doing the inner work while still very much being human.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

We are two intuitive self-aware women navigating healing, motherhood, burnout, and the beautifully chaotic reality of life without the love and life filter.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

If you've ever felt a little too aware, a little too deep, or just slightly unhinged in a world that doesn't make sense, you're in the right place.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Here we will explore deep topics that encourage our growth and mental health. No gurus, no dogma, just navigating through life's asteroids while trying not to spill your coffee on your morning commute. Just exploring with curiosity where we fit into the whole cosmic puzzle. All right. Welcome, weirdos.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Welcome, weirdos. Today we're going to be talking about religion. And we just want to kind of touch on it, give our personal thoughts. This isn't telling anyone about any of their beliefs what it needs to be. We just really wanted to take a deep dive into how we feel, our experience. And we're approaching this with curiosity, respectfulness, and openness. And just take whatever resonates, leave what doesn't, and allow this to simply be a space for reflection. All right. So time to do our card pulls.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

Carrie, let's start with you. Alrighty. Today we are pulling from the Sacred Rebels Oracle by Alana Fairchild. And my question today was for those thinking about the differences or the similarities between religion and spirituality, what do those people need to know right now? And so the card that I pulled was the Diving for Light, which I think is a fascinating concept, right? And it reads How brave you are. You are diving for light. It can be so much simpler to seek light in the heavenly, in that which is blissful, sweet, loving, and kind. To look for the light in that which is dark is an advanced task that only a rebellious and brave heart will attempt. You may not feel that you have taken such a journey by choice, yet you have taken this wise challenge on from deep within your soul. Your innermost being has evoked this situation in your life with the intention that you grow in power, wisdom, and creative juice. It also wants you to experience a bold and fearless trust in life and become further empowered to live it with zest and courage. The oracle of diving for light speaks of a time when you are called into darkness through life circumstances, situations, relationship challenges, or inner struggles that defy clear understanding. That darkness might be a creative block, a sense of being in a void, or feelings of depression, rage, sadness, fear, or anxiety. There may or may not be an obvious cause. The darkness may be generally accepted and socially acknowledged because there is a socially acceptable or obvious reason for it, such as a death, a divorce, or retrenchment. However, there may be no obvious justification for your experience of darkness. You may not need a reason to be able to accept it. Likewise, you may struggle to find an unconditional acceptance of your experience. Just know that you are actually on track and right where you need to be. Our creative process and our spiritual path go through a similar turning of the wheel. There is a spring and a summer, and in the seasons of our soul as well as the earthly ones. There is the autumn harvest and there is the death inherent in winter, when energy is concentrated and pulled within to seek out the darkness where it can rest, regenerate, and simply be until the time is right for new life, energy, and creative inspiration to burst forth. When diving for light, one must be willing to bear the darkness and understand that it has a purpose, much like winter does upon the earth. It is not an error or through lack of consciousness that you are here now. It is testament to your spiritual growth and creative process, not a sign that they are lacking or stalling. The healing process will below will help you with your inward plunging and success and help to successfully navigate it. This oracle brings a particular guidance that although you are powerful, you are also vulnerable at this time. You need to be alert to sabotage and criticism that may make your progress more difficult than it already is. That would be rather unnecessary. At least some of the people around you might be more attached to their fear and doubt than to their faith in your process and the ways of the creative, rebellious spiritual path that asks us to trust unconditionally. They may be frightened due to a lack of understanding. You don't need to carry their fear for them. You have your own process to attend to, and they can choose to be inspired by your journey or frightened by it. They are free to respond as they wish, and whatever those responses are are part of their journey for them to work through. You also need to be vigilant against the darker forces within you. These are the voices that you may not expect, particularly if you are pure-hearted, a pure-hearted being who typically resonates with love. These voices or feelings might surprise you with their dark intensity. They may be feelings of hate, terror, or wanting only to sleep because anything further is just all too hard. They may contain vicious criticism of yourself or tell you that your inner creative work is pointless, unoriginal, or not worth it, or stupid. These dark forces might try to tell you that you are on the wrong path, suggest that you will fail, or ask with great condescension, who the hell do you think you are? You must stay in your heart and not believe these dark forces. Stay in compassion. Fear creates an energy of anger, hate, and destructiveness. These forces are a part of life. We don't have to be frightened of them, nor do we need to deny their existence or try to ignore them in order to find light in the darkness. We can just hold compassion and be intelligently aware so we can avoid being seduced into the trap of needing to prove ourselves or into the mistaken belief that we need to fight against the darkness. It is too easy to get caught up in trying to heal the dark. Darkness just is recognizing it when it is there and be in your compassionate heart. All you need to do is make a choice. Will you stay in your heart or will you be seduced by the darkness and overcome by hate and sleepiness? Diving for light is a spiritual test and a threshold for all true creative work. We successfully navigate our way through this test and pass the threshold into new creative birth by staying connected into the light of passion in our own hearts. It is not an easy test, but it is one that you must be ready for. Otherwise, it wouldn't be coming to you now. Just remember it is the light of the heart that sustains. It exists within us always, even in the darkest depths of unknown terrain. The oracle comes with a special message. There is a darkness within or around you that could become problematic if left unchecked. If for no particular reason you find yourself feeling angry, irritated, hopeless, or tired, more easily than usual, unable to rest, or it is just too much effort to exercise or take care of yourself, then this is the darkness having an unnecessary effect on you. It is time to end that now from a place of compassion. The healing process will empower you for that task. Don't be afraid. You are learning this lesson and the unending power of compassion because you are ready for it. Feel honored by the lesson and stay humbly centered into your powerful, rebellious heart that refuses to be conquered by fear and remains faithful to love. All will be well.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

I love that so much because, especially when we talk about spirituality and religion, I think so much is heart-centered. And I take even the warning I take more as like the darkness around you really like speaks to me as like you're not connected with yourself. And having that connection to your higher self, to God, Allah, whatever you want to call that. I think it's like this is such a great card to speak to spirituality and religion.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

I think so too. It's very it's all two ways to get to the same end, right? Religion versus it's not even versus spirituality, right? It's just whatever path works for you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Well, and there's so much there, there was so much in there, like about the faith, and like, and I think there was a part where it's like others may say, or whatever. And I think like this journey really is unique to each one of ourselves, and we need to find that truth within.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Absolutely. I really resonated with the part about other people's fear, you know, bleeding into your journey and your process, you know, to not you know be influenced by that, to not succumb to that, which I've certainly done plenty of times.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah, nice, yeah. So my question was, what truth am I ready to reconnect with beyond what I've been taught? And I I chose from the secret language animals oracle card, endangered voices of Mother Earth. And the card that I pulled was the gecko. Yeah. And it says synchronicity, optimism, truth, mobility. The tribe comes together to make ready for a journey to follow the rising sun to new lands and people. These most worthy are chosen to row the great double canoe beyond the waves into the open blue. In the ceremony of the sacred fire, silence is broken by the chirp of a tiny gecko. Warriors and elders grin in the acknowledgement. The voice of good fortune has sung into the night. This journey is blessed. Geckos are small, highly adaptable lizards found in warm climates throughout the world. They have transparent eyelids that never blink. Their skin changes color to blend into their environment, and their sticky toes climb walls, ceilings, and any smooth surface with gravies. Nocturnal beings drawn to the light, they are honored by many indigenous cultures as dreamkeepers, shapeshifters, and a sign of good luck. As the grand totem to the people of the new Caldonia, gecko is geckos are embraced as a great ancestral spirit to tribes of the Pacific and beyond. In many ways, Gecko is different to the other lizards, but perhaps the quality that distinguishes Gecko most from the rest of the lizard family is this his his intricate communication and chirping sound of his voice. To the people of Hawaii, this special call is a chime of synchronicity, affirming the high truth and spiritual significance of a moment. The message. When Gecko perches in your presence, this is an auspicious moment indeed. Smile and expect good things, the best things. How would you move forward in this moment if you knew you were blessed? If you knew in your heart that whatever you committed to would triumphantly succeed. Sometimes we have unique thoughts and special ideas. Sometimes inspiration comes in the blink of an eye. As we drive down the road, walk in the tree to stand into a shower. Sometimes an idea may come that seems unrealistic or slightly beyond normal rationale, but it feels somehow exciting, expansive, inclusive. Often our thinking feels somehow exciting. The mind is quick to follow with questions, doubt, and concerns. If we are not careful, within just a few moments, a perfectly magical idea can be squashed into nothing and swept out the door. The message of the gecko is to trust in the magic of the inspired moments as the doorway to the future reality. Don't let critical thoughts cloud your perception of the miracles that may be ready to unfold within you now. Many of the best things in our life were created in ways that we could not have previously imagined. Similarly, much of what waits to greet us on the path ahead may unfold in ways beyond our current understanding. The way to judge the validity of an impulse is not whether it seems realistic, but whether it feels good in your being. Does the idea make you smile? If the impulse stirs energy in your belly and allows you to breathe a little fuller, then hold it in your heart long enough for it to grow. It is something hard to comprehend, but there really are no limits to the blessings that this life can hold for you. Within every moment, every decision, every action, every journey, there is an opportunity to choose the path of positivity and light. Gecko guides you there by simply asking, what feels most light in this moment? What feels most exciting? What makes your heart smile? Let this be the starting place of your auspicious journey. And the mantra is I open myself to the magic of this moment. I listen to the call of light. I trust the inspiration that flows to me now and follow it. So I first of all love that both of our cards talk about light and heart space. Right. And I do find that really fascinating because we independently come up with our questions and polls. So to me, it just different questions. Yeah. Yeah. But I love how both of them totally resonate with this with this topic.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Yeah, right. I love that because yours, it really, you know, it's it's just kind of like a like a little cheerleader card. That's how I take it, right? As a little like, you've got this, keep going. The creativity, the fun, the love, the joy, like all the good things. Just go do that.

SPEAKER_01 12:40

Yeah. Yeah. So last night I called you because I went to a surprise Saturday Easter visual, vigil, vigil. And it was sold to me as a baptism. So this is at a Catholic church. And for anyone that hasn't experienced this, it is like one of the longest services of the year, and it's a pretty big deal. And it was two fucking hours long. So not only was I not given a heads up of like this is what to expect. We show up and everybody's like in suits. So we weren't given a dress code. My kiddo is like right before we were walking in, he had slicked his hair over to look like a goober just to piss me off. And so we walk in and he's in shorts because I couldn't find any pants for him. So instantly when I go in there, I was like, oh fuck. And we had to sit in the front of this church. Okay. Oh my. Yeah. And so I just remember sitting there, and I haven't been to many Catholic services, but I've been to a few. And there's a lot of, you know, genuflecking, standing up, kneeling down, standing up again, singing, sing songing. It's not just normal singing, it's like they talk, but everything is in sing song. Yes. And so then at one point they take the holy water and they fling it at you. And my kiddo turns to me, trying to be funny and goes, I'm burning. Oh no. Oh my goodness. And we're in the front of the church, right? So I left there just being like, what the fuck was that? Like, talk about just a fish out of water.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

So well, talk about trial by fire. You just got inducted right into one of the high holy, high holy holidays of um Christianity. Yeah. Yeah. So I said that is Christmas.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

That, yeah, and I definitely want to talk because there were some things. I mean, Catholic churches to me by far have the most beautiful churches.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

So much symbol symbolism, so much pagan shit, really, that I can see. And there's like so much ritual around all of it. Yeah. It also trips me out that every church that's Catholic that I've been to, the guy always sounds like Count Dracula when he's reciting his songs. I don't understand that. My dad, so my dad was raised Catholic, and he was explaining it to me that everything used to be in Latin when he was younger. And wow. But, anyways, that brings us to very long-winded. I wanted to talk about religion and spirituality. And I just wanted to see, like, I know your background growing up is very different than mine. And I would love for you to share, and then I'll share like how I grew up.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Yeah, absolutely. I was raised Lutheran, and when people hear Lutheran, they're like, Oh, that's like Catholicism, but like the junior baby version. It's the easy mellow version, right? But not my sect, right? It was a lot more strict and a lot more rigid and a lot more rules, and there's not a whole lot of freedom to do anything. So it's just you're kind of put in this little box and you can't move except for to say, yes, yes, sir, may I have another type of thing, right? So my experience with that is I went to a private church school. So I had church six at six days a week at minimum, right? So, and then on Saturdays we'd go to the church and clean up and do this and that and you know, whatever. So it was all God all the time. And, you know, so I learned all the different stories out of the Bible and all these different things. I mean, they all had a lot of context for that, you know, going through catechism and all those types of things, all the hymns, things like that. But as far as like religion and spirituality, like I always felt, okay, this is something that I'm being taught, but I didn't really see the point of it, right? I was the one that was always questioning. It's like, okay, I know that there were no photographers back in the day, but why does Adam in every picture have a belly button? Right. Or if Cain killed Abel and he was sent off to go live with another tribe, who was this other tribe? And wait a minute, Adam had another wife? You know, so it's like all these little things that just kind of didn't make sense and it didn't add up, you know, that type of thing. It just really left me with this whole, you know, sense when the entire time I was growing up of just like, are we done with this yet? Come on, man. Can I just like, can I just be done? Because none of this made sense to me. Like, there was anytime I was questioning um all these types of things, it I was always punished. I mean, I I mean, I'm talking the ping pong paddle and the, you know, washing the mouth out with soap and all that kind of stuff. And it's like, I wasn't really a bad kid in my mind anyway, but I was truly genuinely asking questions out of curiosity of like, I don't understand. Can you explain this to me? Like, this doesn't make sense because you tell me this, but then you tell me this. So which one is it? Like, I don't know which one I'm supposed to follow, right? Like turn the other cheek or love everybody, like which one, you know, or you know, spite, you know, take out your neighbors, whatever this the saying is, right? Like, you know, an eye for an eye, right? Is it that or is it turn the other cheek? Which one? So I was, you know, some of it was confusing, and I, you know, it just kind of left me with this whole bad taste in my mouth. It also conflicted greatly with my at-home experience, right? Because at home, there's ghosts and things just flying around all over the place, and I'm seeing all this kind of stuff, and you know, they're talking to me and they're, you know, this and that and whatever. And, you know, um, I have an autistic brother, and you know, he he and I would both just sit in the living room and just kind of watch, you know, little spirits just zooming around and just kind of doing their thing and whatever. And, you know, in the religious context that my parents had from their lens, he's seeing demons. He's, you know, seeing, you know, all these types of things. So we had ministers coming in and, you know, trying to, you know, you know, doing these these ceremonies and rituals, which never really ended well for my brother and didn't really work anyway, because, you know, they were still there. So, you know, when I was alone at night in my room or whatever, and I'm having, you know, a spirit show up or whatever, zooming around the room, I would do as I was taught. Well, pray to Jesus, pray to God, because that's who's gonna help save you in any type of trouble or any time you're in distress or anything like that. So I would, dear Jesus, da-da-da-da-da, you know, do my little prayers and stuff, and that didn't help, you know. So I'm like, this religious, I'm being taught this, but it's not a practical solution for my reality. So can we just be done with this already? You know, and it's like all of my concerns were, you know, falling on deaf ears. And seeing how they how my brother was treated during all of this, I certainly wasn't going to open my mouth, you know, regarding everything that I was able to pick up on and see and that type of thing, because like I said, it ended very badly for my brother, you know, very often.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

So well, and your brother is non-verbal, right? For the most part. So how were they able to know what he was seeing?

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Because every once in a while he'll come out with a yeah, you know, or a no, you know, that type of thing. So it's like when when he was younger, he did speak a little bit more. Gotcha. Yeah, just here and there, just really very minimally type of thing. But in general, he's not able to carry on a conversation, you know. Like he barely knows I'm his sister, you know.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

So But you knew enough that you were seeing the same shit and you better keep your fucking mouth shut.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Oh, we were like two dogs watching a tennis match now. Just tracking the ball, you know, just back and forth watching these spirits just fly around, you know. So yeah, and then when they would, my parents would call my brother, hey, hey, you know, time for dinner or whatever, you know, and I would, uh, you know, he wouldn't snap out of it, but I would, you know, and they're like, Hey, hey, what's going on? You know, what's going on, you know, and I'm like, I don't know, you know, yeah. So yeah, because I knew, I mean, anytime I talked about, you know, ghosts or, you know, anything that I felt or anything like that, even if I didn't even have the word for ghost, it's like, oh, there's someone in my room, there's something in my room. They're like, no, you're just imagining. You have such a really good imagination, and uh, you know, you're so creative and all that type of thing. And I'm just like, it's very real to me. You know, I felt, I felt the wind go by me. I, you know, I saw something get knocked off my counter, like off my off my bedstand, you know, that type of thing. So I'm like, I didn't know where to go with that.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Well, and that what that's to me what always fascinates me about you is that many kids that had that experience would turn off their gifts of sight, their gifts of hearing, their gift declares because they were told they were crazy or this wasn't real. And and you didn't like really have that in your life.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

I'm a fighter. Well, you know, it did go dormant for a little while, like when I was going through puberty and like early teenage years and stuff like that. But I mean, I still even during that time when I'm just like, I don't want to talk like this is just not, I don't want to be, I don't want this anymore. I I would still always have things like deja vu and out of body experiences and astral projection, you know, in you know, um spontaneously, right? So this would happen to me all the time, regardless. So, you know, and then it's just after a while, I'm just like, all right, yeah, I know. The ghosts, the ghosts are still there, so whatever. May as well just you know, yes, I'll never be alone. I'll never be lonely.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

So when I grew up, I have three sisters, and we didn't have religion. So my dad came from Mexican Catholics, had to go to cataclysm school, like very Catholic. He still tells the tales of being, you know, beaten over the knuckles by a ruler in school. And my mom didn't have religion because my grandparents on her side were Protestant and Catholic. So my grandpa got excommunicated from the church because he married a Protestant. And I got into this. How dare Jesus approves? Yes. And I guess when they moved down to San Diego for a short period, they tried it out for six months. She said they went to a full Latin service for six months and then just stopped going. And that's all she remembers of religion. So I really didn't have religion growing up. However, I would tag along with my like Christian friends, and I would go to like Christian camp and we would sing like, My God isn't awesome. God he reigns from the heavens above. And we'd make like our little like stick popsicle crosses and like yes, the gods.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Yep, out of yarn. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

And I think I would go to like Sunday school, like, so I don't really understand that. I can only assume that was me asking to go, but I never really got into religion. I think I always knew that there was something out there. And I don't really remember a lot of my childhood, but I think I saw things. And I always had like weird times where you know I'd have deja vu moments always, like you were saying. And then as I grew older, I think, especially like living in Singapore and different areas, like I've always had an appreciation for all different religions. And then spirituality, when I finally found you know, Reiki and like just spiritual practice, I'm like, this is my jam. Like, I don't believe in organized religion. I never have, I don't think I ever will. But like for the last five months, I've been doing Bible study with my neighbors. So awesome though. Yeah, with my neighbors who started a local church. She, her husband was the pastor. She went to like theology school and got her like PhD, and she writes, you know, Christian books. So like I feel like it's almost like a college course in the Bible. And I have found I actually really enjoy the Bible, and I enjoy reading it. And there are parables in there that I'm like, oh, I can apply this as a spiritual practice. And it's funny because my sister has done it with me, and we got about halfway in, and one time she's like, Oh my god, I want to get baptized and I'm Christian. And I was like, What the fuck? I thought we were just learning, dude. But to her, to her credit, it has turned her life around in many ways. Like, and I and I really have seen what Christianity has done for her. But I think I just still approach like everything with curiosity. And when it comes to churches, I do find those to be different spaces. Like last night, I could not wait to leave that church, and my skin was fucking crawling.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

And even my kiddo this morning woke up and he is like, that was so uncomfortable. I never want to go back. Now I have not had many experiences like that. The church itself was absolutely gorgeous. And I will say, hands down, like Catholic churches to me are like the prettiest. But I was beautiful. I yeah, I've never loved other church services and felt that level of uncomfortability. And I don't know if it was, you know, we happened to go on a, you know, the most sacred of nights for them. So it wasn't very inviting. It was definitely like we were the outsiders in a space we weren't invited to with given no warning. Yeah. So I didn't yeah, that's wow, that's brutal. Yeah, it didn't feel like an inviting space, but that's not to say that hopefully not every service is like that. I just know I'll never fucking go back to that place ever again.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Well, you know what? Maybe it's not so bad on another day when it's not so, you know, when then when everybody's not so locked in on like this is the holiday and we have to follow these rituals type of thing, right? Yeah. I mean, because maybe if you just wander in there on a Thursday afternoon when there's nobody there, you just might feel a sense of peace and connection and things like that, right? It's like, you know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

It's like I I sure as fuck won't be going back, but I would give another Catholic church a try.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Well, you know what? Okay, so I've been to a couple of churches, you know, just to visit, right? Like um St. Patrick's in New York and, you know, churches all over, you know, um, England, Ireland, you know, that type of thing. I mean, they're absolutely gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous. And, you know, I can see what the appeal is and how it really helps people, especially with those old world designs, right? How it really helps you feel that sense of belonging and love, right? Yeah. Because when I step into, gosh, I think it was, yeah, I think it was St. Patrick's, right, in New York. You go in and you feel the reverence and you feel centuries of people in communion together, singing together, like creating this space, creating this energy of togetherness and love. And, you know, and that's it's very palpable. When you walk in, you can feel it. It's tangible, right? And I got the same feeling when I walked into the meditation hall at Vapashana for the first time. That same sense of communion and coming together and every, you know, a whole collective, a whole body of people thinking good thoughts and putting that together in one concentrated area to be like blasted out throughout the throughout the planet, right? And so it's like there are plenty of places where I have felt that. And it's not often, and I do feel it in churches occasionally, but most often I feel it like in nature and things like that. But as far as like people concentrated in one place, that's where I feel it is in you know, meditation halls like that, churches, you know, things like that. So, you know, and it's like I don't deny anybody their religion. If whatever you want to worship, as long as you're not harming yourself and other people, then hey, you know, you go, you do you, right? But it's like for me, I've just been burned so badly by the religion that I just I have no interest. And it's like I've I in doing all the vipassana, um, it has all vipassana is not a religion, yet it's based on Buddhist principles, right? So there are a couple, you know, just you know, things that they keep in in common with Buddhism, you know, so which I really like, right? But it's like I cannot find myself committing to any one particular rich religion. You know, I align my values align pretty closely with Buddhism, but I don't want to commit to any religion because once you commit to one religion, you're excluding everybody else, right? It's like, well, it's got to be this way or you're you don't count, right? Oh, it has to be this way, but you don't count, right? And it's like, I don't, I don't like that at all. You know, I'll give you a quick story. For example, at my uncle's funeral a couple of years back, one side is Catholic and the other side's Protestant, and we all met in one church. I don't even know what kind of church it was, but the Protestant side showed up and the Catholic side showed up. And you would have thought we were back in Ireland back in the day because the the knives in the eyes, you know, of everybody that was just staring each other down. And I'm like, we're here to honor this man who was the most amazing man like on the planet, right? And you guys are sitting here, you know, getting pissed off at each other because you don't worship the same way. It's like, is that what God wants? Doesn't God want all of us to love each other? Is that like the basic tent tenet of pretty much every religion? Yeah, there's unity and and love each other, love one another. And fundamentally, yeah. Yeah, so it's like it's stuff like that that just really, you know, just uh it adds on another, you know, it's the confirmation bias, right? It adds on another layer of like, oh, this is this is why religion sucks for me.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

So yeah, not gonna do it. And for me, I know the only reason I'm able to attend the Bible study is because, you know, my my beautiful neighbor, she would never ever try to like convert me as a condition of being a part of the Bible study, right? And she doesn't judge me for not having her beliefs, and I can ask her, because I remember one time I asked, like, okay, can you help me understand? Do you do you view your God as the only God in every other religion is basically like following a false god? And and essentially, you know, paraphrasing the answer was yeah, and and she asked me what I believe, and I said, I think that the same part with you where I struggle, like I think it's just a different lens of God that you're viewing the God as energy, like that is God is energy to me, not I don't, he's not some white dude floating around with a beard on a cloud. But all these different religions really are just like a different lens into divine energy, and I and and fundamentally I can't understand how you would think that a Catholic God is a different god than a Christian god or a Buddhist god, you know, like that's versus for me, versus a law or yeah, right, all of them, all of them, yeah. That's very a hard concept for me to understand, and I think that's where all organized religions I just don't quite grasp onto because I can't imagine that there's only one right way in anything in life to do right, and that's that's what I picked up on early on, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

It's like, how can these, how can our little group, our little tiny church, be the only ones who are correct? How do we know that all these other ones aren't correct? And I just got sucked into the wrong one because my parents stuck me here, you know, and it's like I figured that one out like early on. I'm like, I just this just doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Yeah, I could it also doesn't make any sense how religions can sprout up in like the 17, 1800s either, you know, like all of a sudden their God is the only God. Like that doesn't make any sense to me when civilization has been around a lot longer.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Well, okay, so here it was it Oscar Wilde that said religion is the opiate of the masses, right? And it's like, okay, when I dig into that, I can I can see that, you know, because it's used as a tool nowadays. I think this is what it's morphed into, into a tool for control for a lot of different things, right? That being said, I also know on the other side that there are plenty of people that don't get sucked into that, right? Like they're not just like blindly following. They're like, no, I find comfort and I find my own version of God in this community and in this, you know, through these methods of worship, you know, and I'm like, that is amazing. And I love that, you know, and it really does give these people that I'm thinking about, you know, a lot of peace, you know, and it just really helps, helps them guide them, helps guide them through their day, through their life, through their morals, through, you know, in ethical situations where they have a choice to do one thing or another, you know, and it really does help them, you know, and that is amazing because for me, I'm thinking, no matter what it is, as long as you're putting that positive vibe out there, yes, you're you're contributing to the collective, right? Like I have one friend of mine who's like, Do you mind if I pray for you? I know you're not Christian, but do you mind if I pray for you? And I'm like, she's like, You're not gonna get offended, are you? And I'm like, No, absolutely not like you're thinking of me, that's amazing. And you want to send God love, you know, and thoughts and you know, about me? Thank you. Like that was I was honored. Yeah, right. Like, I'm not gonna get offended any of that stuff because we're it's all part, it all goes to the same to the same place, right? It's like you're on an airplane, whether you sit in the first row or the last row, you're still gonna get to your destination, right? A hundred percent it's all a connection, it's all a connection to God, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Yeah, well, and if we talk about the opiate for the masses and going back to the space where you've been like transformed just by crossing through the threshold, I think that also speaks to the power prayer period. And when you have so many people praying in a spot, I do see how that becomes like a holier spot, or you know, there's some type of magic that gets sprinkled into the physical energy just because I think thought, like positive thought and prayers are so powerful.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Absolutely, absolutely. Well, I mean, this is this is science too. This has been proven, and go look it up for yourselves because I'm not gonna give you guys any, you know, you can do your own Googling, but it has been proven that when people are meditating in in masses, in mass groups, that um crime goes down, you know, violence goes down, water is cleaner, just all these different factors, um, positive factors around the planet happen when group large groups of people are are standing together, standing together, right, exactly, meditating, praying, whatever you want to call it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

See, and that's where that's where organized religion again gets a little tough for me is if the end goal is to love thy neighbor, love everyone, love is the foundation. How do you not have love for somebody else that's worshiping God in just a different form or lens than you are?

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Again, this is where I am burned by religion because it has to be this way, and this way is the only way, or you don't count. Yeah, you're going to hell, you know? And it's like that was that was just like crammed into me again and again and again and again. It's like, you have to believe this way, you have to do this, you have to do this, this, this, and this, or you're going to hell. And I'm like, if God is a loving God, why is he such a dick?

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Or is it is it man recorded him wrong? Anyway, yeah, I totally agree. I remember one time it was like my first real job out of college, and I was hanging out with this chick that I worked with, and we were like shopping together on a Saturday. We were like at Macy's and we were driving around. And she goes, Oh, I've been meaning to ask you, what religion are you? And I was like, Oh, I'm not, I'm not of a religion. And she just goes, Oh, and I go, What does that mean? And she goes, I'm going somewhere when I die, and I hope you find religion so you can go there too. And I said, Are you telling me I'm going to hell? And she just goes, I just remember being like, and this day is over because how my God, yeah, could I go to hell if I live my best version of me and I try not to be a dick? Why would I go to hell over somebody that killed someone, found religion, got forgiven, like and they get to go to heaven, but I don't just because I didn't worship the same way that you did, or whatever it was, or to the line.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Yeah, like why does why do I have to follow somebody's stupid fucking rule? And that's where I come back to I don't think religion is contained within four walls. Organized religion is, but true religion and truly living by the Bible, which I mean, fundamentally, everything that I've read over the last five fucking months of the Bible is really just like God loves sinners, so no one is unlovable, and basically just fucking like come from the heart and live live like a decent human being, and that's all that's asked of you. So why that's the part that I don't understand. Why do I have to accept him into my heart or be baptized or whatever you know some religion is telling me to do in order to go through some imaginary pearly gates?

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Well, that's the whole thing because if you're taught young enough that it's not imaginary and that it's real, that becomes part of your your being, right? And it's like I also have a friend who's just like, I really truly hope that someday you will come to Jesus and you know, and Jesus really loves you. And I'm like, I'm sure he does. And I thank you very much, and I love him too. But I'm not going to be worshiping that as the end all be all because that's not my experience, that's not my lived experience. That's you know, it's like it's not my jam. Yeah. You know, and it's like too many rules and too many, you know, if if this one has this rules and and has these rules and another religion has these rules, some of them are gonna overlap, right? I mean, the basics of like don't kill people, you know, be good to each other, love one another, you know, don't be jealous, don't be hateful, you know, all those types of things, right? But it's like everybody's interpretation of what those particular things look like varies from church to church, and you just can't do anything about that, you know. And it's like, I'm not gonna subscribe to one because you it's one or nothing, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:08

You can't you can't please, you can't please everybody, and everybody is that's what's really hard for me, too, is because I think the things that we can all agree upon, you know, pedophilia is bad. How then can we forgive organizations that hide their pedophiles within the organization and protect them?

SPEAKER_00 39:28

That's another issue, yeah. You know, so or I there's a phrase that says there is no hate as strong as Christian love. Yeah. And that phrase, yeah, and that phrase has been coming up. I mean, especially lately with you know the the moral climate or this this last year or so, right? And it just again, more cognitive bias about I'm just not gonna like religion is not for me. Organized religion is not my job.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

So now, where I will say is my neighbor who I study the Bible with, she is one of the only people who calls themselves a Christian and truly lives and walks the Bible. Like they are amazing people. They, you know, they didn't run a mega church, they ran it, they have lived modestly their entire life. They have always, you know, thrifted things, and and not that that makes you a good person, right? But like they were never living high off the hog as some of these mega churches. I just really find them to be like they truly did this because this is their calling and this is what they believe in. And and I fucking love that. I love them. They were there when when my nephew passed away, they were the ones who were in the room with us, helping us as a family. Like they were on the boat when he spread when we spread his ashes. Like they are just incredible people, and so I think for me, I love finding common ground in the Bible because I can share something with somebody that I love, even if I don't agree with the organized religion part of it.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Right. No, and that is absolutely amazing, you know, and I love that too. And I uh same thing, I do also know people who are very, very religious and they do the same thing, just really using it as a wonderful guide, guidebook, guide, you know, tool for their life, you know. And as for my one friend who is always like, I really hope you find Jesus because you're not gonna like where you're going, you know, after you die, you know, her home life is an absolute train wreck. Yeah, an absolute train wreck of drama and cops and just, you know, for years, all the time that I've ever known her. And I'm like, I don't really see where the religion is helping you so much, you know. You're not a poster child for this one. Like you're you're not, yeah, exactly. You're not you're not a very good advertisement for this. So thank you. You know, love you, thank you. Wherever you're going, I'm pretty sure I don't need to go there too. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Well, and I mean, you know, this is a topic for another day, but I do strongly believe when somebody has such a strong spiritual belief that that can follow you when you transition into death. So I don't think that's for everyone, but if you believe in purgatory or you believe in hell, whatever that may look like, I also believe that if that's your belief, then that could happen for you afterwards. But that's not my belief. And I know that's not what's waiting for me afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Right. Well, you know, another little funny story, right? We had the minister over at our house all the time, you know, to quote assist with my brother and all these types of things. You know, and then also to talk to my parents about me, because again, I was not a I'm not gonna cooperate with if you're not giving me anything that makes sense, then whatever, you know. I mean, I was cooperative, cooperative enough to, you know, not get in too much trouble, but I've still had my fair share of paddling and punishment, all that kind of stuff. You know, and my parents or my minister one time came over and he's like, I'm afraid that your daughter's going to hell, you know? And I said, I'm hell. I'll pointing at him. And then he looked pointed at me, see, and I pointed at him, see? It's like, where do we go with this? Like, you're tormenting me. This is you're not even answering my questions. You're just being a dick because you're bigger than me. And I would tell him that, like, I'm a child and you're an adult. And it's like, you're not answering my questions, and you think that you can speak to me this way because I'm a kid. Yeah. And that's not right because you're not giving me the same respect you give everyone else. You kiss everybody else's ass, but I ask a question and you know and he like what I guess be gone demons. Pretty much, yeah, but that didn't work, right? So it's like I I just you know, I was burned early on and I just don't care to relive any of that stuff. So yeah, again, not to say that I don't find, you know, churches to be absolutely beautiful. That type of thing.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

But I just so I find churches to be one of those places that, like, you know, I too have been to Ireland and some of the most amazing churches I've ever seen. Again, the Catholics, they freaking know how to do churches to me. Like they are beautiful, and you can spend so much time it within them and just sitting in them. You can I can feel a lot oftentimes. Yeah. Or even that little church up in Johnson Dale, the R Ranch, that little church, right? It is so cute. It's a hundred years old. It's like what 20 feet by 12 feet, maybe. Right. And even that I can see from the decades of worship, it held something that's just a little bit more sacred.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

You can feel the community, and you can feel the safety and the and the camaraderie in that tiny little space. Yeah, that Cuban church up there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

And I can also feel something sacred walking through graveyards. That is also one of my most favorite. Is it okay? Yes. Things to visit whenever I'm going. Like I love going up to Julian and walking through all of those little tombstones or anywhere. Savannah, Georgia has one of the most amazing graveyards I've ever been to. So I do think that these places are sacred and hold energy, right? Right. Well, that's I don't think it's contained within a religion in some telling me how to live.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Right. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I don't know again, because for me, graveyards are just like, oh my god, more people that want to talk to me. Oh yeah. I'm just like, sit down, just because I can see you doesn't mean I have to talk to you. Like you aren't you supposed to be moving on by now. Like you know how to leave, you know where the exit is. You don't, you don't need me, you know. Yeah. So it's a not not so much graveyards for you. Um, I've also found it. It's I find it interesting, you know, just to kind of see whoever's there if I'm feeling talkative or feeling like listening to whatever stories, because they do have fascinating stories about their their eras that they were that you know when they were alive, you know. So you have to be in the mood, right?

SPEAKER_01 46:14

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. I also find temples to be that same sacred space. There's this one temple, I mean, uh beautiful temples throughout Thailand that I've been to, but this one in Delhi, it was called the flower lotus or the lotus flower, and it's a Bahia temple. And that religion I actually find to be very fascinating as well because it is very inclusive and very open, much like Buddhism is to from what I've experienced and read about. And I think that's where it comes down to. I just like the religions that are a little bit more open-minded to be like, hey, this is what it is, take what fits, leave the rest, and explore on your own. But if somebody's gonna tell me this is how it's done, these are the rules, I think I have a really hard time with rules in general, and I especially don't want somebody telling me like what my beliefs need to be. Like, fuck you. I need to see, do, hear, and experience it for myself.

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Right. Yes, exactly. Yeah, and that's again that's where I was butting heads with my school and my church, right? Because okay, so for one thing, my middle name is Ruth, right? I was originally named Ruth. Carrie's actually my middle name, but I was named after Ruth in the Bible. And the entire time I was growing up, Ruth is so humble, Ruth is always happy with leftover scraps, Ruth never asked for anything, Ruth is quiet, Ruth is obedient, Ruth is, you know, all these things. And I'm like, you're trying to tell me something? Like, what yeah? Because I'm none of those things, right? I'm gonna ask. And you know, being, and it was one of those things that I felt it was not specifically directed at me, maybe, but you know, for womankind in the church, is like, well, you're expected to be quiet and obedient and accept scraps and crumbs. That's that's your job, is to just do that while the men folk were on the show or whatever the deal is, right? Like that was a very thinly disguised message when I was growing up, and I didn't care for that one either. It's like, I'm just as valuable as all the rest of you guys, in spite of your best efforts of trying to make me think otherwise, you know?

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Yes. So, what are your thoughts then on the word God? Is that a hard word for you to like sit with, or have you made it your own?

SPEAKER_00 48:26

It yeah, I've made it my own, but for the longest time, I mean decades. Anytime everyone's like God, I'm like immediately bristled and immediately triggered. I'm like, you know, so it really took me a long time to soften and just allow and just have my own version and definition of what God is, you know. And for me, we are all God. We are all one, we are all God, we are all like every everything, you know, every polluted river, every, you know, benevolent, you know, master, every whatever. We are all part of that, right? Yeah. And for me, I look at it as we are all the same unit, but we choose, we are choosing to experience all of these different aspects on this planet through those different lenses. So right now, I am the carry consciousness that is I am God as a carry consciousness experiencing itself in that manner, right? As you are the Jain. And this computer is experiencing that through its, you know, consciousness, right? That type of thing. So all of these different things, all of these aspects are all consciousness splinters of the unit of quote God that is experiencing itself as that right now.

SPEAKER_01 49:39

Yes. So, you know, it's funny because as I was thinking about this today, one of the biggest passages where I had an aha moment in the Bible was Matthew 26. And it was, I forget how you say this, but it was like the lines 36 through 56. But it's basically when they're talking about Jesus and he's up there and he knows he's gonna get arrested. And, you know, he brings up two homies with him and he's like, Hey, just can you know I need some help. Sit and sit and just like, you know, stay at attention while I go and pray. And he is like praying and he's praying to Jesus or to God, and he's saying, you know, like basically, fuck, I'm kind of scared, but like if I need to, if I need to be crucified, like, okay, take me, God, like let your will be done. And I don't know why in that moment it finally hit me, at least from you know, the Baptist Pentecostal perspective, that uh and the Christian prescripted perspective is that you know Jesus is an aspect of God, the human form coming down to earth. And if Jesus being God had this hard fucking time, like knowing that he was gonna die, to me as a human, I'm like, well, dude, if God created all this shit and then does this like little test where he puts a human form of himself onto earth to go live amongst us all, and he's having a hard time, like maybe this planet is really fucking hard for everyone, and maybe we should all give ourselves a little bit more fucking grace, right? Like, so so that's where, like, for me, I have found the Bible like, oh shit, this like I can relate to this story in the Bible, and and that's also what's you know, there's so much of the Bible that basically just says, like, it is okay not to be perfect, it is okay to be fearful and to like turn yourself over basically to a higher power. And that's where like I don't mind the word God, I never have it, doesn't have any, you know, trauma behind it for me. I think universal energy, I've probably always adapted to a little bit more, but I can definitely gleam on to I am you know in a human, I'm having a human experience, and my higher self is definitely way more connected than my human self that is still waking up and connecting back to there's a lot more to this shit than just going to fucking work every day and living paycheck to paycheck. So right? Well, you know what? Yeah, go ahead. No, well, so I mean, I understand why people are drawn to religion because there's definitely an inner knowing, I wonder, in many of us, that there's something more to life than just us as an individual.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Right, right. Yeah, I think we collectively would feel it, you know. Yes, and as for that story with when um Jesus before his crucifixion was out in the garden praying, and he's just, you know, and I remember that story, how he was just, I mean, it was the night of his life, right? He was not having a good day, right?

SPEAKER_01 52:33

Yeah, and his homies couldn't even fucking stand watch and stay awake. They were like sleeping the whole time, which I didn't want to. I'm like, what the fuck? Okay, sorry, go on.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Well, so you know, having heard that story a million times when I was a kid, and then having all the experiences that I've had, you know, through my life this far, I really see that now more as a metaphor for a spiritual awakening. You know, because when you are going through a spiritual awakening, you are going to you're going to go through that dark night of the soul, right? You're going to have to discover and look at and really sit with your own depth, like sitting in your own diaper type of thing, right? You're gonna have to sit and look at your shit and just really accept responsibility for all the ways that you have and haven't been a good person, right? Or how you behaved in whatever situation, right? And it's like, or or your motivations behind how you're behaving, right? So to me, that's what I take from that story, you know, as a metaphor now versus a literal translation.

SPEAKER_01 53:33

Yes, yes. But see, I think that's also the beauty of the Bible. It is definitely a book that has been around for thousands of years, right? Like, I don't actually know how old the Bible is. I probably should. I've been studying it this long. I will go look at it after we're done here. But I think that that's also like there's power in people reading the same story and sitting with. And I also see so much of the Bible, like it is applicable to spirituality, period. Like, you don't need to, to me, the Bible is very separate than religion. And like you just said, like the dark dark night of the soul, that is something that so many fucking people can relate to, right? Yeah, and so if you can read a book that helps just at least maybe make you think about life in a different way, like why not be open to more?

SPEAKER_00 54:20

Well, you know, where it gets convoluted is because, again, the Bible is so contradictory in certain parts, right? Everybody's interpretation of this. And the thing is, we're only looking specifically at the Bible, which I'm gonna assume is the King James version, right? But go on. Right, yeah, you know, but it's like how many of those chapters were dismissed, erased, buried, burned? You know, and when you take a look at the Torah, that's only, you know, only, you know, the Old Testament. When you look at the Quran, that's the Bible plus extra chapters, right? Yeah. So it's like this is where you get into problems because the Bible has been interpreted, interpreted, interpreted so many times through so many languages over all of these years. How do we know for sure that whoever was translating it for the 20th time didn't like this passage and just kind of conveniently left it out, right? Which when you, you know, put the whole thing together and you read the entire thing, that's where the contradictions come from. Maybe there were very good explanations for all of these types of things, but somebody just was like, Yeah, they don't need to know that, right? Because that was in their time era, in their time frame, that was what was relevant. That was what was culturally important at the time, you know. We don't know. So it's like for me, I I just can't take that with any, you know, I really like to take it with a grain of salt, you know, with as I do with any text, right? But it's like the Bible has so much emotion tied to it. Everybody is just like, it's all or none with it, right? Like that's that's kind of what it feels like.

SPEAKER_01 55:46

And I think that's probably why I dig the Bible so much because I'm very detached from it. It it isn't, first of all, like you touched on it, it was edited by men, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:58

So it is that's why the story of Lilith isn't there, that's why the story of Mary Magdalene got convoluted. That's all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 56:04

Or Mary Magdalene, uh, an awesome book. It's called Mary Magdalene Revealed, the first apostle, her feminist gospel, and the Christianity we haven't tried yet. I fucking love that book, like amazing. And it does talk about how you know certain apostles' books were left out of the Bible because it probably didn't fit the narrative that they wanted, which I think throughout history many can agree religion has been used as a control, a tool of control for the masses. Correct. So if you're gonna control everyone, of course, you're not gonna, you know, invite all the words, which I mean, truthfully, like you know, I could see what Jesus is doing as hand-on healing, you know. I I wonder if he was just so like fucking in tune with himself as you know, coming down, you know, as the aspect of God. Like, so what if we look at it too as like maybe all humans, if we were that connected, would be able, you know, for to to have that much insight, to have that much healing capability. But, anyways, I digress. But going back to Mary Magdalene, she's a perfect example that she was kind of villainized in a lot of the Bible, but yet we see her reoccur, like, you know, when Jesus returns, she's the first one, like waiting for him three days later, like, oh shit, he's not in there. And he appears, you know, and says, like, hey girlfriend, I'm back, you know. And then she pretty much believes him right away, like, didn't recognize him at first, and then did, and then she goes off to tell, you know, Jesus' disciples, and he was like, Oh, you know, like, who are you to tell us that he's alive? And they waited until they saw Jesus with their own eyes. So, anyways, I totally digress, but I think the Bible we look I look at as a tool, and it has some rad parables, but it's definitely told through the filter of a man's perspective, right?

SPEAKER_00 58:01

To control generally women, yeah, right, and felonized, yeah, yeah. So, you know, what one thing that I find interesting is in in some texts, some religious texts are just you know, just ancient texts, right? Uh Indian, you know, this types of things, like even for women's body parts, you know, women's body parts were called the grotto of the white tiger, you know, the lily garden, right? You know, things like the very flowery, very poetic, right? But in a lot of Christ older Christian texts, you know, women's body parts are called the filthy sewers and you know, just really derogatory, you know, nonsense like that, you know, and it's like I I can't be bothered with that because if you're if you're already going to within the context of love everybody, you are showing disdain and hate towards 50% of the population. Yeah, you're contradicting yourself right then and there. And so why, why am I gonna be a part of that shit? Like you're already such a hypocrite while you know, out of the once out of the mouth, you're you know, you're telling me, Oh, well, you need to sit down, shut up, and your skirt is too short and you, you know, you're you're being too loud. And then on the oh, love everybody, Jesus loves everybody, God loves everybody, go to God for help, right? Whenever you're in trouble. And it's like helping me with you, motherfucker.

SPEAKER_01 59:19

How much how much of that editing was coming from someone who is very repressed sexually?

SPEAKER_00 59:25

Well, that was my understanding too, like the whole book of Paul, right? Like that, or not Paul, yeah, Paul, was that his name was Saul, and then that was his the thorn in his side that he talks about was him being homosexual, right? And so then he had some type of great revelation. And I I I believe I can't remember correctly, an angel came and talked to him. He had this huge revelation, and then his name was changed to Paul, which you know, the significance of the name and that type of thing. And so what I was taught was like, well, that's when he was cured of his homosexuality. So the OG conversion therapy. Yes, and we know how well that works, right? Like, why is that even a thing?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

Yeah, I mean, Tinder doesn't crash during political rallies for a reason, or not Tinder, grinder. Oh my god, right? Oh man. That's funny. Yeah, so you know, I love thank you so much for doing this and and sitting with religion. I do find all religions fascinating, and I hope people, I hope people can take from this, like, you know, the importance of just reading from multiple sources, right? And that at the end of the day, we truly don't know what the end holds. And I think that's for us individually to sit with and define with our guides, with God, with whoever you connect to. Right. I just don't think that is at all for somebody else to tell me how to do, how to be, how to, how to believe. But if it is your jam and you love showing up and you're like, no, I'm on the right track, like also write the fuck on, but maybe don't judge others for having a different opinion.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

That's that's the sticky wicket.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:15

You know, that's the whole, you know, there is no hate like Christian love.

unknown 1:01:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

And again, no disparaging to, you know, everyone that's just kind of, you know, that's remember, that's me coming from my lens of that. Yeah. And that's been my experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

Well, I also think that that's a saying for a reason, right? Like, I don't think I don't think every Christian person behaves a certain way, but I think there is a stereotype at times because there's enough people that act in or behave in a way that isn't quite what I would align with what the Bible says. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:51

Well, you know, it's it's it's funny because my one friend who's always like, Oh, yeah, I hope you find Jesus soon. She's always telling me that I am the most Christian, not Christian, non-Christian that she ever knows. And she's telling me every all these all this drama within her church and all of her circles and all this other kind of stuff. And she's always telling me that I am the most Christian non-Christian that she knows. And I'm like, Well, maybe that should tell you something. I mean, and you know, you still believe it. Keep on keeping on, man. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:23

Well, but so here's the thing too, is that I actually don't believe that many people that show up to church really truly read the Bible or listen to the passages that are being read to them. Right. Because I don't think, from what little I've experienced, I don't think many people would be able to call themselves a Christian, fully read the Bible and behave the way we see so many behave.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

Well, you know, that was another thing that I always kind of you know, kind of got got stuck under my craw too, was cherry-picking the verses that fit your narrative, right? That fit what your beliefs are, you know. Again, it's the whole cognitive bias. You're gonna find things that back up what you already believe. Yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

All right, well, on that note, today that was fun. I explored no offense to all Catholic churches. I have been through some amazing ones.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

Yes, no offense for because I've intended on my behalf as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:28

Yeah, I definitely want to try another Catholic service, like never fucking again at that one. But I do like the idea of going to a sacred place, a holy ground, because of the energy that comes along with it. And I can see, like, you know, whether it's group meditation or even the sound bath that we the the sound bath we just went to, not megatron. What was it called? Tegratron. Okay. Megatron. That space is so incredible because so many people are doing yeah, again, the collective area. It is, and I and I think I think truly for me, more so than ever, it's really more about community and coming together and finding common ground and operating from a place than from love, then having a certain set of rules that are sometimes contradicting, like contradicting one another. That's just where where my beliefs lie. Yeah, yeah. Mine too, yeah. So with that, keep exploring, stay self aware, stay a little unhinged, and remember religion doesn't have to look like any one thing. Spirituality can be whatever you make it. And until we see you next time, tootle, tootle, stay awake.